Hello
I read “RoboCupJunior Rescue Simulation Rules 2023”. (RCJRescueSimulation2023RulesFinal.pdf)
so I have some questions.
Q.1
Summary
A sample Area 4 (Tentative):
What is the “Tentative” written here?
Does that mean area 4 isn’t an official rule yet?
Q.2
2.3.2. Silver tiles will be placed randomly at the start of each game.
Is this true?
I have never seen silver tiles randomly placed at the start of a game.
How can the silver tiles be randomly placed?
Please tell me how to operate the simulator.
Q.3
2.4.2.1. Area 4 is non-tile-based.
2.4.2.2. There will be various objects, e.g., boxes, inside this area.
2.4.2.1. All traversable paths measure a minimum of 12 cm in width.
2.4.2.2. Area 4 will not exceed one-quarter of the entire arena.
There are two, 2.4.2.1 and 2.4.2.2.
The second 2.4.2.1 → 2.4.2.3
The second 2.4.2.2 → 2.4.2.4
Right?
Q.4
2.4.2.2. Area 4 will not exceed one-quarter of the entire arena.
what is an “arena”?
There is no mention of arena anywhere in this rules.
Dose it mean “field” ?
Q.5
2.6.2. Visual victims are uppercase letters printed on or attached to the wall.
This is the only place in the rules that says “Visual victims”. (all other places are “victims”)
Is this expression “Visual victims” correct?
you are correct… The word “Tentative” should not be there.
Area 4 is in the official rule.
Apologize - an oversight.
to Q2:
yes, the silver tile can be placed randomly so that no premaping is possible.
however, it sounds like you have a more specific view point on the location of silver tile. If it is, please elaborate.
to Q3:
you are correct - 2.4.2.3 and 2.4.2.4 (un-caught issue from inserting an image in the middle of order-list )
to Q4:
field == arena
it shows up also in the summary. However, I do agree that this could have been more consistent.
thank you for pointing out.
to Q5
since we cannot possibly have any form physical victims in a simulation environment, we take it for granted that “victims” implicitly mean visual victims.
I read your answer.
Q.1 Q.3 I understand. please fix the rules or post a rule fix article
Q.4 Q.5 I understand. Since this is a rule, so please standardize terminology.
Q.2 I have a question again
2.3.2. Silver tiles will be placed randomly at the start of each game.
Are you following rule 2.3.2 when playing the Rescue simulation competition?
Are you randomly placing silver tiles at the beginning of every game?
“…Are you randomly placing silver tiles at the beginning of every game?..”
Silver tiles are incorporated into the *.wbt, and thus it will remain in the same location for the rest of a particular round. However, the silver tile will be in a different location a different round, i.e. with a different *.wbt.
In other words, the silver tile won’t change in-between LOP during the duration of a single round. However, it will be different at a different round, as it utimately will use a different *.wbt.
In other words, the silver tile won’t change in-between LOP during the duration of a single round. However, it will be different at a different round, as it utimately will use a different *.wbt.
I understand that as well.
What does it mean in Rule 2.3.2 that the silver tiles are randomly placed at the beginning of the GAME?
I think that Rule 2.3.2 is an impossible and incorrect rule. It will only create confusion for the team.
Why is Rule 2.3.2 necessary?
I am not sure exactly what you are asking… The rule is necessary… Are you referring to how the rule is phrased in English? Or, thinking the sentence should be removed entirely?
Or, you are questioning “random”?? To the robot, the orientation can be one of the 4 directions, N, E, S, W. So, to the robot, it is random per se. I don’t think it is necessary to define “random”.
The rule is necessary… Are you referring to how the rule is phrased in English? Or, thinking the sentence should be removed entirely?
I simply want to know why “Rule 2.3.2” is necessary.
I think that Rule 2.3.2 cannot be enforced by anyone.
Or, are you enforcing “Rule 2.3.2” in every game?
“are you enforcing “Rule 2.3.2” in every game?” YES.
At LOP, the engine may randomize the direction when it puts the bot back at the checkpoint. Thus, the rule should be clear to prompt the teams to prepare for the checking before moving again after LOP; so that no one should assume whichever direction they left off from. However, this logic is pretty obvious. Thus, I suspect I might have misunderstood your point of asking to remove that rule!?
At LOP, the engine may randomize the direction when it put the bot back to the checkpoint. Thus, the rule is necessary to be clear to prompt the teams to prepare for the checking before starting to move again after LOP.
I’m sorry, I’m not sure what you’re referring to or asking.
In this question, I’m not asking about the direction of the robot.
I’m asking about the silver tile at the start of the game.
2.3.2. Silver tiles will be placed randomly at the start of each game.
I simply want to know why “Rule 2.3.2” is necessary.
because the silver tile will be placed at a various location from one round to another.
Are you calling this ‘random’? I think that the use of ‘random’ is incorrect.
If the fact that the configuration changes every round is considered random, then the position of the black tiles (holes) and speed bumps should also be random. Please define the black tiles (holes) and speed bumps like 2.3.2.
I understand that the course changes every round. However, I’m curious as to why only the silver tile is specified in Rule 2.3.2.
"…position of the black tiles (holes) and speed bumps should also be random… " Yes, they are.
Random means unpredictable… Thus, it is fine to say random.
Then why is it written only for the silver tiles to be “randomly placed”?
Shouldn’t it be written that all elements such as black tiles, obstacle, walls, and victims should be “randomly placed” ?
If it is not written as “randomly placed,” it may be misunderstood that they should remain in the same position even if the round changes.
Thank you reply.
but, I have not received a valid answer for Q2.
my question is simple.
Is Rule 2.3.2 correct and necessary?
(You answered “That is correct”)
If that’s correct, why is it only written on silver tiles?
“… the question is simple…”. Exactly, that’s why my answer is also very simple. There is a balance act among clarity, being concise, informative, but not being too wordy. Are you asking why others like black hole rules do not contain the adjective “random”?!
Random in the sense that there is no pre-known location, but with whatever restrictions given in the rules doc.
Thank you reply.
Sorry I don’t understand your answer.
You answered the following about “placed randomly”.
because the silver tile will be placed at a various location from one round to another.
Similar rules are written for Rescue Maze.
Rescue Maze
2.2.2 b. Coloured tiles will be placed randomly at the start of each game.
Does “randomly placed” written here mean “placed in various places each round”, the same as your answer?
Rescue Maze’s rules are written not only for silver tiles, but also for other colored tiles.
more clarification will be incorporated in the final release.
I read Rescue Simulation 2023 rules.
RCJRescueSimulation2023Rules.pdf (Last updated: 2023-05-21)
But rule 2.3.2 doesn’t seem to change anything.
Please let me know where the clarification changes are.
Will copy some of my reply from the other thread here.
Rule 2.3.2 is there to make it clear to the teams that the silvered tiles doesn’t have a specific location on the field. These tiles can be placed anywhere in the field and as many as the field creator desires. This help us so teams don’t think tiles always need to be in a specific place (for example, in between area rooms). The only exception is with rule 2.3.3 that guarantees that Area 4 will contain checkpoints immediately after the red and green tile entrances to the room. Everything else is fair game.
We will reconsider the wording for the 2024 rules and make changes if needed.
more clarification will be incorporated in the final release.
This answer said final release, but your answer means that the 2024 rules will clarify.
I understand.
Hopefully it will be spelled out clearly in the 2024 rules.