My team and I are wondering if there is going to be a maximum number of ramps and different levels at Bordeaux . We know that there aren’t any rules on the amount of those features, but we would like to know if we should expect the possibility, of three or more ramps and levels? It also would be nice if the rules on ramps could be clarified in general, as the current state leaves a lot of room for interpretation and the example arena given does not reflect the ramps we usally encounter during competiton.
Answering your question, there is no maximum number of ramps or levels (floors) according to the rules. Your robot must be prepared to expect any number of ramps and taking it to different floors. We cannot guarantee the amount of ramps or levels that are going to be utilized in the Bordeaux competition.
Can you expand on your rule clarification request? I would like to remove any ambiguation from the rules as possible and remove the room for interpretation, so better understanding the confusion will be helpful.
The example arena it’s just an example of how the rules can be applied to create one course, but we can generated multiple options based on the rules to challenge the teams. Do you have any photos or images we can review to understand the unexpected scenarios you saw during competition?
thank you for your clarification and quick response. we as a team luckily have not had any problems with unexpected scenarios, but our concern lies more with new teams, without expirinced mentors, entering the maze competionion for the first time.
During our rule review we noticed that, the unclear definition of ramps in conjunction with the rules regarding the field itself, may confuse unexpirence teams.
The rules do not really clarify, that different overlaping levels are possible: “2.1.1 The field layout will consist of a collection of tiles with a horizontal floor, a perimeter wall, ramps,
and walls within the field”.The use of the singulare for ‘floor’,combinded with the pictures within the rules, may lead new teams to the conclution that the field will only be a single floor with ramps comparable to those in Rescue Line (without the possibility of driving under the ramp).
The difference between possible false expactations and reality is huge, considering the complexity of the mapping algorithms that are needed for multiple levels and ramps, and makes seriously competing during the first year quit difficult.
I hope you understand our concern.
With regards,
Tobias
Team Robo4Future
Those kinds of arenas, oftentimes with a second ramp and a third floor, are the ones we encountered during competition.
Thanks for the explanation! I understand your concern and will keep it in mind to modify the wording in the 2024 rules and make it clear of the expectations of a ramp. Even with the current rules we can have a scenario where the robot can visit a tile under another tile (just like rescue line) but I understand we don’t have pictures showing this.
Even with the current rules we can have a scenario where the robot can visit a tile under another tile (just like rescue line)
The rules of Rescue Line define overpasses and underpasses as follows.
Rescue Line 2023
2.2.3. Robots must be designed to navigate under tiles that form bridges over other tiles. Tiles placed above other tiles will be supported by pillars at tile corners with a square cross-section of 25mm x 25mm, making each tile entrance/exit 25 cm. The minimum height (space between the floor and the ceiling) will be 25 cm.
On the other hand, Rescue Maze does not include rules corresponding to Rule 2.2.3 of Rescue Line.
Therefore, I believe that overpasses and underpasses should not be included in Rescue Maze.
If, as you mentioned, overpasses and underpasses are set up as you described, please add rules equivalent to Rule 2.2.3 of Rescue Line to Rescue Maze.
With the existing rules we can do it as we have rule 3.2.1 in the Rescue Maze rules defining the maximum height of the robot, so as long as we don’t conflict with any other of the rules we have in place (example, making sure there are the walls with min 15cm height, the tile size it’s consistent, etc) we are good to go, we don’t need to make an extra clarification.
Rescue Line includes that clarification as the size will be limited to 25cm in those examples.
About having a second floor in one section, We wanted to announce there are some significant problems and we are not able to change the code because of the lack of time and our final exams in our country (international exams).
Last year we participated in Thailand, Bangkok competitions and the second floor didn’t place in any rounds. Also, there aren’t any rules that mention the second floor .
If its possible postpone the second floor to the next year.
please add rules equivalent to Rule 2.2.3 of Rescue Line to Rescue Maze.
I say this because nowhere in the Rescue Maze rules does it say that some tiles build bridges over other tiles. If overpasses or underpasses can be placed, it would be clearer if the rules stated “some tiles bridge over other tiles”.
We will discuss this with the RCJ Rescue Committee to see if it makes sense to do a clarification in the 2024 rules. For the rule creation, we are not only attempting to make it clear and consistent for everyone but also we are challenging the teams to come up with all the different scenarios that might be built with the set of rules provided. Coming up with the understanding of the problem and the different situations that might be created based on that problem sometimes it’s as important as the solution of the challenge itself. It is an important skill to develop in the robotics environment.
As previously stated, the rules allows to have multiple floors (8 for example) and allows to have multiple connections and overlaps if you see the map in a 2D space In Rescue Line it is required to do a clarification due to the way the bridges are built, they have pillars that the robot needs to consider and that will affect how the robot interacts in those situations. In Rescue Maze nothing will change, you still have the walls with the minimum heigh so your robot navigation isn’t compromised when you are under a tile.
After all, in Rescue maze, is it possible to build Underpass and Overpass similar to Rescue Line?
Is it possible to set up a course like the one shown in the diagram below?
I have placed three victims in this diagram.
I consider victim Vic-S(a) to be worth 30 points. What would be the point values for victim Vic-U(b) and victim Vic-H(c)?
in Rescue maze, is it possible to build Underpass and Overpass similar to Rescue Line?
Yes.
Is it possible to set up a course like the one shown in the diagram below?
Yes (assuming the dotted lines are walls in the underpass path).
I consider victim Vic-S(a) to be worth 30 points. What would be the point values for victim Vic-U(b) and victim Vic-H(c)?
30 points each. The three victims in this diagram are placed in floating walls. This is assuming victim Vic-U(b) it’s in the overpass section of the field (aka in between the ramps).
30 points each. The three victims in this diagram are placed in floating walls.
I also agree with the 30 points for these victims. Because it is in a place where you can not reach from the start tile with Right-hand approach.
Your answer mentioned ‘placed in floating walls,’ but in reality, Vic-H(c) is located within a linear wall. This is because the wall where Vic-H(c) is installed is connected to the start tile." (rule 2.3.1)
As such, your answer does not match the current rules. I think you should reconsider rule 4.6.2
Hello to everyone involved in this discussion:)
I actually believe that according to the rule
2.3.1. Walls may or may not lead to the starting tile consistently following the leftmost or rightmost wall.
Walls that lead to the starting tile are called ‘linear walls’. The walls that do NOT lead to the starting
tile are called ‘floating walls’.
the wall with Vic-H(c) is actually a floating wall. Even though it is technically connected by a wall, it is not reachable by just consistently following the leftmost of rightmost wall, which is the condition stated in the rule.
But the example is definitely interesting and inclusion of overpass may include more scenarios we should definitely take into consideration.
The victim of A in this figure is 10 points. And the victim of B is 30 points. Correct?
So are the walls between A and B “linear walls” or “floating walls”?
According to the existing rules, the wall between A and B it’s a linear wall and a victim placed in the B position needs to be 10 points, even though we both agree that must be 30 because it required a “mapping” logic to arrive to it. If we find any edge case like this one in the map creation for this year’s competition, we will make sure to communicate it with the team captains to set expectations. We will work on clarifying this for the 2024 rules.
Actually a wall is technically not floating or linear, rather a tile is, we should probably change this entire wording in the rules. See picture for reference.
The green victim is linear, while the red one is floating, even though they are on the same wall. However, green tile is the floating tile, while all the yellow ones are linear. We will consider changing this in the future iteration of the rules.
To your question then, IMO, B is 30 points, A is 10.
However, green tile is the floating tile, while all the yellow ones are linear. We will consider changing this in the future iteration of the rules.
I hope the rules improve.
10 points for victims on tiles that can be reached one-handapproach from the start tile, 30 points for victims on other tiles (requires mapping to reach).
Also, please consider making it possible for the victims of tiles that can be reached by one-handapproach from the checkpoint tiles to also score 10 points.
In Rescue Line it is required to do a clarification due to the way the bridges are built, they have pillars that the robot needs to consider and that will affect how the robot interacts in those situations. In Rescue Maze nothing will change, you still have the walls with the minimum heigh so your robot navigation isn’t compromised when you are under a tile.
